OBAMA/BIDEN 2012!

Thank you how right you are. I believe that we shouldn't pull our troops out of countries that still need us there. We bring them home and they have no job and no homes to come back to. We need them to keep things from happening like happened the last three weeks ago. How many more Americans can die before we can see we are needed over there> As well as here. God is needed everywhere.

In what way did Obama disrespect the military?

Romney wants to give them more then they want to have more ships then 1917, a clear pander to the Hampton roads area. To create government jobs, you k now the one government doesn't create...

Obama laid out a vision of high tech military, for the 21st century. That isn't disrespect it is understanding that there won't be traditional warfare... It is fighting terror...

So what did you just say there besides some buzz words. Romney was schooled last night on about every issue. Romney didn't show any real position where he'd do anything differently then Obama, and had to resort to the attacking me BS. Had to try and bring it back to domestic issues. and his whole government doesn't create jobs, yet his main reason to increase the defense budget is to pander to Virginia...
and Obama put the whole wing nut apology tour BS aside... and made a nice point that when he visited the middle east it wasn't to fund raise. The world likes us now. They like Obama. just look at this BBC poll http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20008687
and Romney on China flat out lied... Remember he tried to create a powerpoint slide with his hands.... and then said the trade imbalance is getting worse under Obama... well that just isn't the case. The imbalance is down since Obama took office... and referring to South America as Latin America was a bit odd. and he meant Brazil, and should have just said Brazil not this ill defined place called Latin America.

Patrick, I can;'t agree with your analysis.

Obama was attacking, lying, and weak. His lies and spin are exposed in my earlier post.

One thing you mention about Romney pandering to Va. I can't argue that, although Romney HAS been saying he'd NOT cut defense all along, so this is not a pander to Va. It's his consistent message.

If you talk about pandering, how about Obama mentioning Ohio 2X, when it was completely out of context. Was that an accident? Did you miss that?

And the apology tour isn't BS. He went to Iraq, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and apologized for America, the same way he apologized to the UN for "The Video"

And finally, your dismissal of "Latin America" is bizarre. I don't understand that one at all.

Patrick, our trade balance with China has gotten worse down EVERY year since 2008.

Why do you choose the EASIEST liberal claims to debunk to just destroy your argument.

Check the US Census; the US China trade deficit has gotten worse every year since 2008. FACT FACT FACT

Patrick, you're making this so easy. Usually your arguments are more solid.

The context was China, and the imbalance of China exporting goods more then it imports... Well. That isn't the case... In fact while the global downturn was a boom for China their exports have shrunk to 2.8% of GNP...
While our imports from China are something like 318 billion last year, that is based on our demand... how many of us flock to WalMart for a cheaper product. But the fact is that China is in decline. That is because America has remained strong while the Eurozone is weighed down by the debt of its weaker members. So if you wanna play the zing game and not discuss the context of the issue .. so be it. fact is that Brazil and the Philippines etc have become the new boys in town.
and I find Latin America odd, because it is so engrossing and besides latin based languages, how to to tie Argentina ro Mexico, or Cuba to Brazil. Bolivia to Panama. It is way to broad of a stroke from a wanna be president.

Patrick what on earth are you talking about. The context is not relevant, although even if it was, the answer would not change. It's a simple fact that you tried to mislead everyone on here. Is there or is there NOT a growing trade imbalance with China. You claimed Romney had it wrong, and in fact he had it right. Context or no context.

And you clearly don't understand Latin America. Tremendous trading opportunities right here in this hemisphere. The fact that you laugh it off if laughable in itself.

Max, maybe you don't understand my point about Latin America... Brazil is the next comer to the world stage, while Cuba or Bolivia not so much. so to lump them like it is one country would be like saying Germany and Greece are the same thing... of course I didn't even mention that Syria is Iran's gateway to the sea, gaff. . As for China, the context is incredibly important. Romney holds up China as the evil of our trade issues. Fact is that while we do import a ton from China, China is exporting less to the world as a whole, and is losing it place on the world stage. Romney knows this, and lied because it is easy to target the red nation. Even if it is our demand for their cheap products that is fueling the influx. Sorry if my holistic world view is too much for you to understand, but I'm not trying to fool anyone. This is just the way the world is evolving. And I also fault Obama for not bringing this up. but I understand why he didn't because the Fox Noise machine would have said he was weak on China.

Patrick, I understood your comments and your "holistic world view" very clearly. I just happen to disagree. Of course, as you say, Cuba and Bolivia, not so much. But what about Mexico, Colombia, Costa Rica, Argentina, and yes, Brazil too? Latin America is a massive market that is growing (unlike Europe) and Romney was damn straight in bringing it up. Obama never brought it up which shows he's an AMATEUR and has no foreign policy experience or insight (even after 4 years.)

Patrick, you're really sounding like a hypocrite continuing to say "Romney lied" about China. He very clearly said our trade imbalance is big and has been getting bigger every year since Obama.

How can you call him a liar for that when you know it's a fact? I simply do not understand how you liberals can say someone is lying when they are stating proven fact. It's like there's a hole in the bottom of your boat, the water is rushing in, and your standing there fishing saying, "that's not a hole." Just like Romney said to the President during the first debate, "just becasue you keep saying it over and over, doesn't make it true." It should shame you that your President does it so callously, but Patrick, when someone of YOUR intelligence does it, it really makes you sound like a hypocrite.

When you say "Romney lied" please back it up with fact, otherwise I will call you out on it.

Max come on... Romney has been vacillating so often that it is hard to understand who he is... and that isn't me. Rush Limbaugh said that yesterday.. the panel on Fox said that after the debate. What is is his real Afganistan view, what is his real China view? Is China an evil empire that has to be tariffed or is it a supplier to the US of inexpensive goods. And what about Argentina... you can't even own US Dollars ... and then you have his economic policies that seem to change on any day ending in y.
and look it up China's trade imbalance has dropped sharply since Obama took office. as I said it is down from 4.5% of GNP to 2.8% of GNP and I included a fact sheet to document it. so you can reject my world view, but you can't reject what is happening in the world. yeah?

Patrick, again you're misstating the facts. Trade imbalance with China. Do we (the US) import more from China or do we export more to them? That's what trade balance is and that's what Romney was talking about. The answer is we import more from China than we export. Way more. Therefore we have a trade imbalance. Next question, has that imbalance gotten larger (worse) or smaller (better) since Obama took office? The answer is larger, or worse. We now import more goods and export slightly more by comparison (but the spread is worse) than it has been every year. 2011 was worse than 2010 and 2010 was worse than 2009

That's what Romney said. It's a fact backed by the US Census. And you're calling him a liar for it, which is bush league and right out of the Liberal playbook.

Next you'll call him a flip flopper for saying he didn't say what you said he said. It's an old a tired trick and it's all you got because your man has NO RECORD.

BTW, see all the flaming gun Benghazi emails coming out tonight? Amazing that you're still backing this man who was running to fund raisers while we could have still saved Americans, then told a proven lie ("The Video") for 2 weeks on the View, on Letterman, and on Univision.

Just pathetic. Again, Patrick, repeating a lie doesn't make it true. Obama (and apparently you,) hasn't learned.

Max, Not sure where you get your news or if you read business rags?.. So I explain it really simply , China is in trouble. And that will effect our economy. So when Romney stand sup and talks about imbalances and being the driving force behind our export problem, he is lying. Read this article and maybe then you'lll understand the problem in holistically ....http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/23/business/global/chinas-slowing-economy-puts-pressure-on-american-exporters.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

And for the record... It has been Dems fighting China's dumping of under priced goods that by design are meant to kill our markets... Chuck Schumer has been the leader on this front, along with President Obama. Do you understand the issue now? Perhaps I haven't done the best job explaining it, but that doesn't change reality.

And you have to read beyond the Drudge headlines regarding Lybia. Emails that a group took credit for the bombings... Well of course they did, and then hours latter people flooded the streets to honor America and denounce the attacks.
Read the BBC for a week, it will change your life. I will freely admit to being liberal, and I will call out Obama if I disagree with him. So your characterization of me as some sort of muppet to the man is way off base. I like my 401k, I like seeing profits in the stock market, so I vote for Dems... I like a President that doesn't insult America, I like a president who understands and will admit to a world economy, but working to create jobs here, not just platitudes that run in the face of everything Romney has done as a business man and one term governor. Anyway.... Let's just see what America does. I'm hoping for a great q2 based on the re election of Obama.

Patrick, you're digging your hole deeper. It's OK to admit you were wrong.

Your NY Times article does nothing to explain your argument. In fact it mentions another Obama lie from the debate when he said our exports to China have doubled. That's a lie that you can check on too. He said that during the debate and it's a lie. In 2008 we exported 69.7 Billion to China. In 2009 we exported 69.4B to China. In 2011, we exported 103.9B to China.

Where exactly did we double exports? That;s EXACTLY what Obama said. Does the NY Times in it's Business Section cover that? Nope? They just gloss over that FACT CHECK.

Then Patrick, you call Romney a liar for telling the truth about our trade balance with China. In 2008 our trade balance was - 268 Billion. In 2011 it was -295 Billion. So it has gotten worse, which is what Romney said and YOU CALL HIM A LIAR.

Again, I'll say it over. You calling him a liar over and over doesn't make it true. You ignoring the fact of Obama lying to you proves you are a drone.

It is difficult speaking to the tone deaf, and perhaps if this wasn't associated to politics we'd have an actual dialogue. But you keep wanting to stick it to Obama. I said "and Romney on China flat out lied." I have told you why I think that, and why it was dishonest. and 69 to 108 is close to doubling, and if you wanna stick it to Obama for doing well but not as well as he says I'll take that.

anyway. I think we're done here. Best of luck, and maybe we'll see each other leaving sample ballots weekend before the election.

Since doubling is close to tripling, why don't we just say we quadrupled exports under his term and Still call Romney a liar?
Do I want to "stick it" to Obama? No. Do I want to expose him for what he is? A community organizer/campaigner that destroyed every political candidate he ever came across and lucked his way into the White House? you betcha.
Debt has gone up 5 Trillion to 16 Trillion
23 Million ppl out of work
8% unemployment his entire term (except last months 7.8% which we're all supposed to applaud)
11% the real unemployment number
25% underemployment
lowest labor force participation in 40 yrs
1st ambassador killed in 40 yrs, even though White House Situation room knew for 2 hrs he was under attack but no one in the White House took responsibility
Underemployment for College Grads 50%
Unemployment for Blacks 50%
Food stamps up 40%
Welfare up 40%
Interest rates on savings accts at lowest in 40 yrs
Obamacare forced through Congress 100% partisan including tricks like "Cloture" and "reconciliation"
Pelosi says "you have to read it to see what's in it"
Solyndra, GM, Tesla, Chinese Solar Manufacturers, Dutch Light bulb manufacturers, get our TAX DOLLARS - Where is that in the Constitution? The President is allowed to "invest" in companies now. Wonderful.

What does Obama say for all this? "Not my fault" He's a sixth grader.

Patrick, this is not "sticking it" to Obama. This is America today under his watch. Fact after Fact, my friend.

Great list Max, now lets look at it

-Debt has gone up 5 Trillion to 16 Trillion
The National Debt Has Exploded Nearly $5 Trillion Under Obama — And It's Been A Great Investment
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-national-debt-has-exploded-nearly-5-trillion-under-obama--heres-why-its-been-a-great-investment-2012-9#ixzz2AJuVs949

-23 Million ppl out of work
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/03/politics/fact-check-jobs-economy/index.html
another Romney distortion.

-8% unemployment his entire term (except last months 7.8% which we're all supposed to applaud)
11% the real unemployment
25% underemployment
lowest labor force participation in 40 yrs
no one is applauding the most recent numbers. but why is unemployment high? why aren't people getting at least cost of living raises at work? why has the recovery been so slow? well perhaps it is the lack of corporate investment, even as they record record profits... maybe its uncertainty of the fiscal cliff.. All I know is that e=unemployment went from 4.5 to well over 10 as a result of the downturn in 2008. And every effort Obama has taken to retain jobs, has been met with things like SOCIALIST etc. Romney claims to add 12 million jobs, but what he doesn't say is that projection is the same no matter who is President. Not really sticking his neck out.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/mitt-romneys-new-math-for-jobs-plan-doesnt-add-up/2012/10/15/fd1d1e1c-170f-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html

-1st ambassador killed in 40 yrs, even though White House Situation room knew for 2 hrs he was under attack but no one in the White House took responsibility
I'm sorry, I read this story, and You want the leader of the free world to stand up and say that a terror group claimed responsibility for an attack, from unclassified memos, which was among hundreds flood ing the sit room... I don't follow the logic. So we let these low life gain credence and recognize them just because they claimed to do it. Sorry that is not how it works. You figure out who did it and bring them to justice. Obama has a pretty good track record there.
why don't we not politize terror attacks. it will never be a winning issue no matter the side.

-Underemployment for College Grads 50%
and what is Mitt going to do for them? besides slashing Pell Grants... Romney has offered his usual platitudes and no real meat on the issue. I do know that Ryan wants to slash Pell grants.. and I know Obama won't...

-Unemployment for Blacks 50%
and a Romney admin would be better for unemployed African Americans, they sure don't seem to think so, last I heard he was polling around 95% of their vote. and over 75% of Latinos.

-Food stamps up 40%
Welfare up 40%
and Obama Phones, and all those LAZY people... stop the dog whistle politics...

-Interest rates on savings accts at lowest in 40 yrs
and bank fees, and a President who has tried for 4 years to fight the banking inductry, only to be blocked by the House... http://articles.marketwatch.com/2010-04-26/economy/30701543_1_key-test-vote-bank-reform-derivatives
that said, interest rates are low every where, and you can refinance your home at record low rates.

-Obamacare forced through Congress 100% partisan including tricks like "Cloture" and "reconciliation"
Pelosi says "you have to read it to see what's in it"
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jun/28/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-obamacare-adds-trillions-deficit/

-Tesla, Chinese Solar Manufacturers, Dutch Light bulb manufacturers, get our TAX DOLLARS - Where is that in the Constitution? The President is allowed to "invest" in companies now. Wonderful.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/obama-and-outsourcing-a-guide-to-the-gops-charges/2012/07/11/gJQA1LBIeW_blog.html

so many of these facts have been disproven by fact checkers...
reality doesn't matter, context doesn't matter... Max seriously, stop reading the right wing blogs, watching Fox News and get all of your info, for say three days, from the BBC. Try it, your whole world will change, it will be like living in reality for the first time in years. and maybe cure you of your Obama Derangement Syndrome. ODS, is harmfull, but I think a few days of straight BBC could sort ya right proper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47kZofrFwQ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rB9Aa6qVauE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMVfm_uTVBI

Tell yaaa what. its tough when Liberal gang up on Romney.

what debate did you watch...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82727.html
here is Obama's closing statement.
how is that all over the place? He answers what his vision is...

here is Romney's closing statement.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82728.html
When he actually addressed issues and not platitudes, each seemed like a reversal of a previous position. as for Massachusetts... Romney said his emergency budget would save the state 2 billion with out tax increases. Well it was really 100 million, and so Romney went after business for revenue. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/02/us/politics/romneys-strategies-as-governor-bucked-his-ceo-image.html
And Romney like most so called reformers who pledge to not raise taxes, just pushed the burden to the local government... while Romney will tell you he cut taxes in Mass. the effective tax rate in the state went from 9.6 percent to 10.2 percent.
and lets not forget what many Republicans in the primary debates pointed out that under Romney Mass. was 47 out of 50 in job creation. And look at how may vetoes the State House overturned... Romney worked with the House because he had to... or he'd be over ruled.... Lets not pretend this is McCain/Kennedy

Patrick, by making this comment (about Romney feeling different about Massachusetts than he does as a Presidential Candidate) you show that you DO NOT understand the Constitution. You can not compare his policies as Governor to his proposed policies as President. You then (as other Liberals do) use this difference in justifying the notion that he is a "flip-flopper."

That argument doesn't hold water, and any 10th Grader with a HS Government class could tell you that.

Now compare that to Obama, who was against gay marriage before he was for it. That change in policy happened while he was in the White House. Oh, and coincidentally, that change in policy happened in an Election Year, right after the Rupublican nomination was sealed, and one month before his first Clooney/Hollywood fund raiser.

And you OBAMA DRONES call Romney indecisive. You are so blind by your Obama fantasy and so disillusioned by his AMATEUR performance that you're grasping at your own media created hype.

Stave vs. Fed is one of the core issues of this election (and every election since #1)

It will all be over in 13 days. (And then let's see what criminality the Thug-in-Chief gets away with in the lame duck session)

They are both running for the Presidency of Ohio.

Landslide victory for Romney. FL, NC, and VA were all toss ups 3 weeks ago. They are being conceded by Obama. CO, and NH will change for Romney any day now. OH, MI, WI, PA are all in play.

Obama must sweep all in play states now and that won't happen. The DNC has run out of money (makes sense since Obama can't pass a budget, why should the DNC worry about one) and they are borrowing to continue the campaign.

Will be a landslide, and I think he can even carry NJ, if only a fraction of you people who voted for Obama wake up and take off your fantasy lenses.

How 'bout now?